Treating Founder
(Chronic Laminitis) without Horseshoes
Guest book posts, 1999
(Gretchen Fathauer's comments are in red)
I have one "Foundered" horse and purchased a second. I have 4 others. Cause
of founder in our area is very lush grass. I have been doing some of the things you
recommend, just because it seemed to help. I think you've got something here. Ed Robbins
robbins@canuck.com
PS--Somewhere on the site I saw where to order a book on this subject. I will be ordering.
Gretchen Fathauer's response:
Sabine Kells and Dr. Hiltrud Strasser, authors of "A Lifetime of Soundness," have found that once you restore more circulation in the feet through frequent, correct barefoot trims, a natural lifestyle (constant access to turnout and freedom to move) and more exercise, horses which used ot grass founder seem to be able to tolerate more grazing.
Having read your article on trimming founded horses feet I would like to thank you for taking the time to share your views. It's something that I would love to have the time to do, having been a farrier for the past 22 yrs in Australia. Having been taught this way of dealing with founder by a very old farrier, I have found it to be the most successful (and believe me I have tried many so-called 'new' ideas), I feel that the more natural the hoof the better. I am currently trialling the feeding of shark cartilage powder (3months) and although it is to early to say it is of benefit, so far the results look promising. As yet I do not have my own computer, so do not have an e-mail address, but hope to soon. Keep up the good work and good luck. --O.D.
Dear O. D.--
Thanks for your comments! I would be very interested in hearing more about your experiences. Hope you get online soon. When you do, send me an email. I want to hear more details about what has and hasn't worked for you.
Right now I have been reading Dr. Strasser's book, "A Lifetime of Soundness," which takes this idea to its logical extremes...and apparently works really well. They have some associates working in British, Columbia, in Canada; they train people to do this kind of trimming, too. Jaime carries the book on his web site.
Do you have some interesting photos? If you want to share them with me, please send them to me at PO Box 307, Duncan Falls, OH 43734, USA.
--Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Thank you soooo much. I will share with my farrier the information I have learned from your site. I have searched the net for months and have finally found what I was looking for. My mare and I both thank you. skov51@cyberhighway.net
Truly the most informative site on the WWW I have yet found. I have not have a chance to completely read all the information you have provided, but what I have seen so far totally confirms many of my observations. The causes of laminitis are obviously many and varied. After 5 years of struggling with this problem we have "maybe" narrowed down the trigger for our horse which is excessive heat and humidity. We live south of Calgary, Alberta, Canada and our horse would founder almost to the day every July. We had eliminated all the traditional elements commonly attributed to founder except a casual remark a Vet had made about horses in Texas foundering due to heat stress. During the hot days and nights of July and August we kept our horse in a air conditioned stall with a deep bed of shavings. He made it through the summer for the first time in four years. But, we bought 500 bales of timothy /fescue blend - we normally feed straight timothy - and after having feed the horse the timothy/fescue he foundered again in the late fall. Almost immediately after starting him on that hay. Somewhere in the back of my mind I suspected the fescue was the cause and put him back on the straight timothy. He was a little sore, but otherwise fine until I accidentally feed him the timothy/fescue mix some weeks later on and he went again, Big Time. The founder, believe it or not, was confined to his back feet. Since then we have had off and on bouts of abscesses, sometimes in both feet at a time.
Dr. Strasser has found that if you improve circulation in the feet enough to withstand these occasional crises, many things that formerly triggered laminitis attacks can be sloughed off. The keys--very frequent and correct barefoot trims, constant freedom to move, and more exercise.
It has been hell for him and hell for us as well. Anyway, the natural wild horse trim is a further confirmation of my thinking and I would say as well that not only should we take the notion about how a wild horse wears his feet, but as well has how a wild horse feeds. The forage a wild horse eats is normally the (I say this with some reserve) hard prairie grasses. Feeding horses large quantities of grain (oats, whatever) or even feeding them grain at all is unnatural as well as high percentage alfalfa hay. People with so called high performance horses who insist on feeding their horses alfalfa hay and large quantities of grain are asking for trouble, big time.
How right you are on that. I visited a farm that did this. Straight alfalfa, and TWO of those larger coffee cans of sweet feed a day for stalled horses getting no exercise. They had big founder problems there, and colic. The one mare was so sore, she was covered with bedsores from being down all the time. I trimmed her while she was lying on her side, as trying to get her to hold a foot up while she was standing was an impossibility. She was so sore a farrier could not be sure she wouldn't just fall on top of him...if you could even get her up off the floor. She has been making progress. Walking a lot better, and the hooves are getting more normal looking, although she is continuing to have abscesses. She is due to foal any minute. Her vets wanted to put her down. She is doing better, and the foal's life has been spared as well. It's really satisfying for me to save a horse's life like this. That is why I put up my site.
Especially if they only high performance their horses once or twice a month. Anyway, again thanks for your work. It is excellent, excellent, excellent. Thank you very much.
Greg and Donna Hanson gphanson@tcel.com
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, our vet has suggested frog supports for the horse. What are your feelings about this? Thanks, again for the wonderful site.
Greg and Donna Hanson gphanson@tcel.com
Greg--
Glad you found the site useful.
Sounds like your fescue mix hay is endophyte-infected. Since your horse is so sensitive to this, I agree with your decision to not feed it to him.
Since you're in Canada, I really recommend that you visit the Canadian clinician, Sabine Kells, who is affiliated with Dr. Strasser's clinic, the German vet who wrote "A Lifetime of Soundness." I also urge you to order "A Lifetime of Soundness" ASAP!! They have rehabilitated seemingly hopeless cases, and have helped some horses who used to grass founder quite readily to be able to graze again without repercussions. You NEED this book! They are also generous with help over the phone, and they will train people how to care for feet.
European School for Hoof Orthopedics Canada PO Box 44 Qualicum Beach BC V9K 1S7 Canada. They don't have an email address. They have a clinic coming up in June 26-7 in Victoria, BC.
Once you read the book through, you will see that nailing on frog support is not only not necessary, but it can be done better barefoot with frequent trims. One of their contentions is that high heels cause a boatload of problems, and all shoeing reduces circulation. Since laminitis is a circulatory problem, anything that will increase circulation will help. They also contend that just nailing on frog support is not really curative--that the key is to increase circulation enough so that new laminae grows in stronger as it grows down. Heartbars will give immediate pain relief, but not repair the underlying cause, a lack of circulation. This is best done with a frequent mustang trim, and having the heels low enough so the frog is supported by the ground, is also great for increasing circulation. I have tried artificial frog support in shoeing. If it is not reset really often, you can still get further rotation. And as soon as you take the frog support away and go with regular shoes, there is no frog support, and the laminae are still weak--back to square one. The real solution is to enhance circulation and trim the toe back to reduce leverage. Trimming my horse recently, I am noting much thicker walls, tighter white line, growth lines showing growth just as fast in the toe as the heel, etc. It takes a long time for the new growth stimulated by better circulation to grow all the way down to the ground at the toe. However, I am actually making REAL progress, not just holding the line. This was a horse who used to have "not much to nail to." His walls are getting much thicker and tougher. It is paying off. The rotation is vastly less than it was before, and the new laminae are strong enough to hold things more in place. All due to better circulation. So many frog support shoeing strategies, like heartbars, can result in contracted heels, which reduce circulation. What I advocate is slow, but the end results are better.
Your horse probably needs more exercise, however mean that sounds. You can't get optimum results if he is stalled a lot. If he is moving around all the time, it will enhance circulation.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
A lifeline to the owner of a severely foundered horse. Thank you. Marilyn Picking rimada@bright.net
Excellent Excellent Excellent!!! what more can I say...thank you for putting the time and energy to put this on the internet!! Pam - daystar@i1.net
What a great! site. Unfortunately, my 29 yr old AQHA gelding foundered last week, probably as a result of his underlying Cushing's syndrome, since no other changes to his life have occurred. You have presented a lot of valuable information that will assist me with the kinds of decisions I face with his future care. Thanks very much for sharing.
Gretchen Fathauer's reply to the following post-- "Unfortunately, my 29 yr old AQHA gelding foundered last week, probably as a result of his underlying Cushing's syndrome, since no other changes to his life have occurred. You have presented a lot of valuable information that will assist me with the kinds of decisions I face with his future care."
Well, putting him on Permax will help, as well as the nutritional supplements I talk about on the site.
Get "A Lifetime of Soundness" from http://www.alltel.net/~star The German vet who wrote it explains WHY, in great biomechanical detail, doing a frequent barefoot trim of the right sort will enhance circulation better than just about anything else you can do. This will help your horse recover, and make him less vulnerable to laminitis in the future. To reach Sabine Kells, the translator of the book from the original German, into English, and who runs a Canadian clinic affiliated with Dr. Strasser, here is the info: European School of Hoof Orthopedics Canada PO Box 44 Qualicum Beach, BC V9K 1S7 Canada
Sabine has been very helpful to people I have referred to her, and very encouraging. She tells me, for instance, that horses that used to grass founder are able to graze more without repercussions once their feet are maintained in a constant wild horse foot shape, due to the enhanced circulation. This is something you can do for your old guy at minimal cost if you are willing to do 2-3x weekly little tune-ups on his trim with a rasp yourself. You are taking off so little at a time that it need not take much longer than picking out feet. But it sure would help your old friend tremendously.
--Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net Don't get too discouraged yet!
I have been searching the web non stop for information about laminitis. I found this one very very informative and helpful. What I'm looking for is an answer to what to do with a 7 year old performance horse who gets sore founder type symptoms when she cycles. There has been no rotation but it is a constant soreness every 22 to 23 days. I know what 99% of the vets say there is no connection with estrus, but you could make a calender with her lameness. Also the vets do confirm it is slight founder, but have no answers. If you have any please let me no. Thank you
A. Moore
amoore@mail.pris.bc.ca
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
You might consult Sabine Kells. However, my take on this situation is that her circulation is so borderline that just a little stress, like coming into heat, will set her off. What you need to do is increase circulation in her feet enough so that she has more reserve. This entails doing very frequent mustang trims. It also involves not stalling her, but giving her constant access to a paddock from her stall. Putting water in one end and the feed in another also encourages walking around. So does putting her in with other horses. Order "A Lifetime of Soundness" from Jaime-- http://www.alltel.net/~star
Sabine Kells is the translator of Dr. Strasser's book, which came out in German originally. Sabine runs the Canadian clinic affiliated with Dr. Strasser, and they train people to do the right kind of trimming. Sabine is in British Columbia. She tells me that horses who used to grass founder can graze more once their feet are constantly maintained in a wild horse foot shape and they are getting more exercise...all of which increase circulation. The same thing could work for your horse.
Gretchen Fathauer
Blue Rock, OH, USA
gretchenfathauer@ee.net
http://members.screenz.com/gretchenfathauer
This was a great site and I really learned more reading this than anything else. What you are saying about the wild horse trim definitely makes sense.
Frances Mullane
frances_mullane@jetaviation.com
I am so happy to have found your article!!!! It is the first time I read something that gives me real hope for my stallion. For the last 3-4 years, I was only able to give him some short relief by trying different things (trimming, shoeing, medication, etc...) My farrier is coming this week and I plan on showing him your article to start ASAP this more than realistic approach for foundered horses!!!!
Jocelyne Laguë St-Constant, P. Quebec Canada
E-mail : pijo1@hotmail.com
Thank you for the excellent, informative article. At the barn where I am boarding my horses, there is an ex-race horse who foundered due to a back injury. His feet are so severely deformed that they most resemble the turned up slippers of an elf. They are actually much worse then even the horse your article featured as severe founder. Every step he takes makes by-standers wince with pain as they watch him carefully place his feet and almost walk on his hind quarters to relieve the pressure on his toes. I estimate his toes to be at least 6 inches long and turned up to add insult to injury. I have talked to his owners to attempt to convince them to give another farrier a try or to do anything to relieve his suffering. I plan to print out this article and give them the information (if that is OK with you). Hopefully they will give your technique a try after learning about your positive results.
Tracy cdarby@mediaone.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Tracy, I was unable to email you--the email bounced for some reason. Neglect this severe is a humane society case. If you cannot convince the owners to start trimming this horse, I would turn them in. For advice on how to proceed, you could get good info from the Hooved Animal Humane Society, 10714 McConnell Rd., Woodstock, IL 60098; 815-337-5563. Even if they are not in your area, they could connect you with people in your area who can help you. They have extensive experience with animals as neglected as this poor horse. They have contacts all over the country as well. Please do something! This kind of thing breaks my heart.
I appreciate your website because it teaches horse owners about barefoot trimming as a treatment for laminitis. My pony Buddy foundered in Sept '97. He could barely walk and had large areas of separation in both front hooves. He had never worn shoes in his life, and I was afraid to put bar shoes on him. My farrier introduced me to barefoot trimming techniques like those in this website. He said that he no longer uses shoes on most foundered horses because they impede circulation to the hoof. He trims Buddy every six weeks by rolling his toes and cutting off his heels so that his frogs are in constant contact with the ground. I file the new hoof growth once a week. I also limit the amount of grain that Buddy consumes. Progress has been slow, but thanks to my farrier, my pony lives a normal life.
--Dusty Sell drs004@vm.cc.latech.edu
I am impressed with the depth and variety of information you have on this site. It is very informative and helpful. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND RIDE ON!!
I think that this website might be a lifesaver for my daughter's horse. Her horse has been foundering on and off for about a year. We have tried local vets and farriers, but none of them seem to help much. We are willing to try anything, with this site I think we may have saved her life. It's wonderful and thank you so much for sharing all this information where people like myself can make use of it. I'm not quite certain of how to lower the heel on her horse. They are very high and I'm wondering, do we lower them all at once or gradually. Thank-you
Colleen Saskatchewan, Canada kirkhamc@em.agr.ca
Gretchen Fathauer's response:
I have taken off 1/2" in one shot, and Sabine Kells tells me she takes it off quickly. My horse was sore initially, though. If you feel better about chipping away with your rasp on a daily basis to take it down gradually, that is ok, too. Just make sure you take down both the heels and the bars. The frog should not be recessed where it is buried between prominent bars. The bars you take down with a hoof knife, not a rasp.
Glad you like the site, and I hope it helps your horse.
I am an Equine Student in my junior year. I have worked around horses my entire life and have read tons of books and magazine articles. But I have never come across such useful photos. Thanks!
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Come back in a month or two! Sabine Kells wants me to scan photos of case histories she has worked on, and put them on the site, which should be spectacular. She already is working on a case shipped up from one of my web contacts in Ohio that had one foundered foot so clubbed that 3" had to be taken off the heel. The horse was 3-legged lame when he arrived at her place. He is now grooving on herd life with the others, and felt good enough about putting weight on the bad foot to kick a mare with both hinds. Much more comfortable now that his coffin bone more parallel to the ground, rather than stabbing the ground, as it was. This had, over a period of 4 years, resulted in almost half of the coffin bone eroding. We'll keep a close watch on him to see what happens!
Come to the seminar Sabine and Dr. Strasser are putting on June 26-7 in Victoria, BC, Canada. There is the possibility that the clinic will last longer. We will be trimming and dissecting cadaver feet under Dr. Strasser's supervision. Jaime will be there. So will I--really looking forward to it.
Dr. Strasser will be getting busier in the future, as the Austrian government is helping her open a school in Austria to teach her method, so it is hard to say when she will be in N. America again soon.
A friend gave me your web site address. I haven't read every little detail, but will come back and finish it as I can. I have been trimming hooves for 5 years and have had some shared experiences with foundered horses. Since I've not been trained to shoe, my work is limited to trimming. While reading some of your text, light bulbs would go off in my head! All of my horses are barefoot and had one go to a summer camp and since she refused to be reshod, she spent the last half of camp barefoot. Her feet held up perfectly with the exception of a wall separation. Probably due to the shoeing. So it is with great interest in leaving horses barefoot that I'm here aside from the founder work. The latest horse I'm working on with founder has progressed from the acute stages and only has sensitivity following trims. I'm still running into the black pockets here and there, but they are far fewer than before. My farrier taught me about rolling the toes or squaring them off too. I have 10 horses with varying types of feet. One in particular grows long toes and very little heel. I'm aggressive about going for his toes and it has helped although he isn't calloused enough yet. I also used to find more blood in the laminaie of his toes. A farrier's clinic informed me that it was due to the stress place on the area from having too much toe. Have you also found this to be true? Anytime I'd mention the sight of blood to other farriers, I'd hear, "Oh you went too deep and hit sensitive tissue!" I knew I had not, but they were only going by my description without having seen it for themselves. I'm going to order both books mentioned, Dr. Stasser's and Jaime's. Thank you for developing and pursuing this issue plus making this web site! Also, I will be attending the Kentucky Farrier's School for two weeks to gain some knowledge in shoeing. I don't necessarily want to make a living at shoeing, but would like to increase my skills. At least I know there's something to be said for specializing in trimming work!
Sincerely, Anne Coley ovrdunit@aol.com
I have a paso fino/racking horse mare (4 yr) that I just bought and never had shoes. She has very nice feet and I have thought about not shoeing, but we live in an area that is very rocky and I am worried about stone bruises and the resulting abscesses. Presently she needs to be trimmed. I was wondering if I should just trim in the same shape that she has naturally worn her feet or if I should shoe?
Debora Casey pcasey@polyon.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
By all means, don't shoe. It will take a while to build up stronger walls and soles through exercise on varied terrain, but in the transitional period, the use of hoof boots to prevent stone bruises on rides through rocky terrain will enable you to improve the horse's feet, not make them worse, which shoeing inevitably will. Most shoeing results in less hoof function and circulation, and some heel contraction. It will take more patience to work into high performance barefootedness, but it is worth it in the long run.
Dear Gretchen,
Just wanted to tell you I think your site is EXCELLENT. In fact, may reference it in future foot articles. Good job. Eleanor Kellon, VMD, Technical Editor, The Horse Journal kell@epix.net
This is my first experience with founder with my horse, Cash. It has been a very stressful situation here because I do not have the knowledge of taking care of horse with this problem. I do appreciate you view, your points, your pictures, and your own experiences. This page has given me hope....and given me things to work with and hopefully improve my horse feet and his problems. Thank you.
Judy Namenek @ namenek@seark.net.
Your site is great. I just had an awful experience--my mare lost her colt last night, and the vet came today and said she was foundering.
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
I hope you can get some activated charcoal into her, such as UAA Gel. If you knock this out quickly, you can at least avoid major damage.
I am so sorry to hear you lost your foal.....
gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Thank you for the excellent article.
Michael E. Smith
msmith1@austin.rr.com
Oh, my god! What a great web site! You have cleared up soooooooo many of my questions! It's the photos and details info that follows. Thank you for taking the time to make this site--hats off. I own two mustangs and they have taught me how to trim their feet and the feet of my two domesticated horses. I also found that farriers where to quick to jump the gun and shoe horses....when I knew in my heart this was not right. I started to question them with no solid answers! Then I started to ask horse owners--why is your horse shod? The same answer--my farrier recommends it! There are few farriers who have taken the time to learn more--instead are interested in making the buck. If farriers knew as much as you did, think of the healthy horses there would be out there! I'm also a self taught hoof career of my horses and might I say thank you to the wild ones who showed me the way.
Debbie Dutra dutraddranch@telis.org
I do have some questions--would you be willing to help me with them? Let me know. Thanks!
Gretchen Fathauer's Reply--
I don't think it is farrier greed behind so many farriers leaning toward shoeing. After all, if all they were doing is trimming, their set-up expenses would reduce ENORMOUSLY. No collections of shoes and pads in various shapes and sizes, anvils, forges, metal-working equipment, nails, on and on! It costs a bundle to buy all this stuff. Rather, I think the answer is that many horses APPEAR to be more comfortable in shoes. Dr. Strasser's explanation of why this is is something I had not ever thought of before--that shoes, restricting circulation, also reduce feeling. So it SEEMS that the horse has less pain in the shoes...because he actually is feeling less, period. I don't blame farriers for this, and believe that most of them genuinely love horses and try to help them. Another reason is that if a horse has poor quality walls, it takes a long time to grow down new, thicker, stronger walls, soles and stronger laminae. In the interim, shoeing is tempting. However, it slows progress. I would like to see more farriers doing frequent barefoot trims, and fitting Horsneakers. I know Frank Orza would be willing to give them professional discounts on Horsneakers if they are sending him lots of orders.
On a completely different subject--just got a call from someone who was thrilled with how UAA Gel I mailed her knocked out her pony's grass founder in a matter of hours. Everybody who has tried it is sold on it.
And yes, I am glad to help individuals who call or email me on a one on one basis.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Hi my name is Kellie. I have a mare that has chronic laminitis. I've been through practically everything with her. This has been going on for 4 years now. Just this past year she foundered twice, so far she's foundered 4 times. She's had so many abscesses I lost count. I could not find a decent blacksmith or a vet that wouldn't give up on her. In '97 I moved from Ft. Lauderdale to southwest Florida. There is a team of vets here; they were telling me things I had never heard of and I'm was afraid to let them do anything to her. They wanted to first X-ray her, which is something I should have done in Ft. Lauderdale. Then they tried shoeing her based on where her coffin bone was, but when they X-rayed we found out her rt ft was counter rotated. So then not only did I have a horse with chornic laminitis, but she was navicular. She had contracted heels and absolutely no good hoof wall, sole or any kind of heel to walk on....well since she's been here, I've already gotten rid of one blacksmith and my new one is great. He listens to the vet and comes out when I need him, because he really wants to help my horse. We started the barefoot trim last year sometime and she got worse at first. I thought we would lose her, but she came around. Now she even bucks around the pasture with the others. I use to show this horse a lot until this happened. Now I can't ride her anymore. I'm going to wait and see how she does this summer and possibly breed her next year ... I really liked your web site. I think its a very good thing for people with newly foundered horses and horses that have foundered in the past so they don't go through what I went through. It's very expensive and heartbreaking.
Ralfanator@aol.com
I commend you on your knowledge. I have been very upset with the fact that my favorite mare foundered. She may or may not ever be ridden again, and I thought of putting her down. Then I looked up a web site and wrote to it and someone replied with your web site and it made me feel better about my situation. Thank you so much.
C. Latham e-mail slatham@texas.net THANKS
Great work! I've added you to our horse health links. We've been trying to promote this kind of thinking and from what I've seen so far, you're right on track and have provided some great details and follow-ups; one of the most complete sites on this subject that we've visited so far.
You might think about exploring some of the new, but simple innovations in taking radiographs, including the use of metallic markers, which most clearly shows how the internal suspension within the hoof capsule improves IN A MATTER OF MINUTES when some of the theories you offer are correctly applied. We're on the cusp of some significant breakthroughs with respect to preventive and corrective hoof care and it's great to see websites such as yours leading the way.
Take care and this site is definitely on my "must read" recommendation list.
":O) Willis Lamm, Webmaster KBR Horse World / KBR World of Wild Horses & Burros / Danny Love's Farriers' Corner http://www.ecis.com/~kbr/ mailto:whl@ecis.com
Thank You very much for the information on laminitis. I have a mare who has a history of laminitis. I am constantly working to prevent it recurring. You have given me a lot of information to consider, the main things being: the use of dolomite (the iron content in our water is high), and I think there is a possibility my mare, aged 23, may have a Pituitary Adenoma. I also found that keeping my mare moving helped with her recovery.
Glenda glendad@es.co.nz
Gretchen Fathauer's reply to the above post:
In addition to the things that you have mentioned re prevention, doing a FREQUENT correct trim will increase circulation enough to help an animal weather some laminitis triggers without foundering....BECAUSE of the greater reserve of circulation enabled by a correct foot shape and more exercise. Your observations about keeping her moving are correct because this enhances circulation. I urge you to get a copy of "A Lifetime of Soundness" to understand this more fully. In speaking with Sabine Kells, the translator, who also is certified to do Strasser method hoofcare, she tells me that once "hoof mechanism" is restored and the horses are kept active with herd life in a pasture board situation and being exercised, horses who used to grass founder will be able to graze more without repercussions. She has also known horses to gorge on grain without ill effects--once they have excellent hoof function through a constantly maintained correct hoof shape and enough exercise. Jaime Jackson was hard-pressed to find any foundered wild horses during his field studies.
What is "hoof function"? Basically, it is a hoof shaped in a way to encourage the heels to noticeably spread each time weight is put down on the foot. In order to get this, the heels must be low, the bars must be lower than the walls, the frog needs to be close to the ground and there needs to be concavity in the sole. You only get this with frequent correct trims, or so much exercise that trims are not necessary because the horse constantly stays worn down.
PREVENTION INVOLVES: 1. The chemical aspects--diet, supplements, using activated charcoal such as UAA Gel during acute laminitis attacks, etc. --AND-- 2. The mechanical aspects--lots of exercise, and frequent correct trims to restore "hoof function."
--Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
I'm very excited that I found your web site. I was about to put eggbar shoes on my mare at my vet's advice. I am going to try the methods you recommend. It seems to make perfect sense.
chris fischer chrisfischer@compuserve.com
Hello again Gretchen!
When last I visited your site and wrote to you, I was just ordering Jaime's and Dr. Strasser's books. Well I finished Jaime's Horse Owners Guide and have almost completed Dr. Strasser's Lifetime of Soundness. I now understand your concern for my "squaring off" the toes of horses. I have since done away with that technique. I just needed to read about the effects of doing such a thing. I'm glad to say that my horse trimming has improved already and that some of my square toed horse's hooves are taking on a more natural look already.
I have a question that you may be able to help me out with. Is there any way I can e-mail Jaime Jackson to ask a question? I didn't see an address in his book or I may have missed it if it WAS printed. My question, maybe you could answer, is to avoid causing concusion problems with a navicular horse during the healing process, would sandy footing due? I'd also see that the hooves were wet daily, too. In Dr. Strasser's book she mentions a navicular horse doing well while on heavy rubber matting at the clinic. I can't provide that sort of condition and wondered if the sand could provide the same protection.
Thank you for your help. I've been referring both books to people interested in barefoot performance horses.
Another observation, I found Jaime's book more helpful in explaining "Power Trimming" than Dr. Strasser's due to the photos included in the text. Dr. Strasser's explanations were correct, but hard to follow without illustrations. So in my case, both texts complimented the other!
Again, thanks for any info and for your site.
Sincerely, Anne Coley ovrdunit@aol.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Jaime Jackson can be reached at star@alltel.net His web site is http://www.alltel.net/~star which also gives his mailing address and phone. Sounds like you might want to use his consultation service, which is described on his web site.
Sand would help with reducing concussion. However, excessively deep sand can stress tendons. Another way to reduce concussion would be to use removable hoof boots. This will enable you to exercise the horse on hard or rocky ground. Early in the healing process you want to avoid undue concussion; hoof boots will make this possible even on hard terrain.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Update: In February I posted a message about my 29 yr old cherished friend who had unexpectedly foundered. I am thrilled to report that he is sound once again and will be in fine spirit to celebrate his 30th birthday May 12. I passed along to my farrier all of the information I had gathered from your website and we compromised with a rather radical trim --shortening up his toes considerably and cutting away (to relieve pressure) the lower quarter of his toe. Reverse shoes and pads were applied. His hind feet were similarly trimmed, except for the cutting away of the toe--but left barefoot. His heels appeared to be quite low. With just this work, the results were dramatic. He could barely walk the evening of his trimming, but was a little improved after the trimming and shoes.
Afterwards, I placed all 4 feet in ice for 45 minutes. The following morning he was much improved. More icing over the next few days, along with a 2 week course of Bute and hand-walking seemed to do much to improve his acute symptoms.
These days he is outside enjoying the spring weather - trotting and cantering quite freely with his pasture mates. I believe I have found correct nutrition for him - although it is a challenge at his age/tooth condition/and now this. I have added supplemental Vitamin C to his diet, which appears to be having a beneficial effect..
We're happy that he'll have another summer of playing "babysitter" to the latest foal born just this past Tuesday, an occupation he thoroughly enjoys.
Thanks again for your great site. I have ordered your recommended book and I'm quite willing to provide weekly rasping to keep him as he is today.
kem@rims.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Well, I find it a bit of a stretch to hear that you are incorporating info from my site--when you are opting for shoes and pads. Are you still using them? To have a more complete healing, you will have to get these things off at some point. One of the main points raised on my site is that barefoot works better in the long run.
During acute laminitis attacks, many of us have been having better results with UAA Gel than bute, as UAA Gel attacks the root cause rather than just giving some relief killing pain and enabling a bit more circulation by reducing inflammation. So many laminitis triggers involve disturbed gut bacteria and resultant gut toxins; the activated charcoal adsorbs these toxins. Too bad more people don't know about it. This is not to knock bute, but during an acute attack, the charcoal is now the first thing I'd reach for.
Re your horse's teeth, etc.--you might look into one of the beet pulp mixtures like Respond. Although it is marketed for heaves, you soak it before feeding it, and end up with a nice mush. There are also convalescent feeds you could soak and serve, too, that would be less rich. I sympathize with the situation, and do not look forward to the time when Max won't be able to chew. I used to board where there were some old horses with bad teeth, and they just wasted away on even large portions of grain and alfalfa. Glad to hear you are going to try softer foods.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
An excellent source of information. Myself having a growing concern for the need of natural supplements in my family's diet as well as all their health care, how much more it is needed in the life style of our horses. Being very new to the care of horses, with two new babies this year, we now have eight...that's a hand full when you're just learning. This spring we turned out five of our adult horses to pasture and now, one week later, we have two with the symptoms of laminitis. I searched everywhere for an answer to their sudden lameness, found their symptoms under laminitis, but when I asked around everyone said it probably wasn't that. I talked to my vet, he confirmed my fears and has them both on bute, four tabs a day each. I still needed to know more, how to help them, how to prevent this, how to heal what's been done, etc. I have searched everywhere, then I found this website and have been thoroughly blessed. Everything you have said I totally agree with, and not only will I share this with my farrier, a real good guy, and have him start trimming feet, but all my horses will be trimmed like this from now on. I have total confidence that when God created this awesome animal He knew what He was doing, and I choose to follow His intentions for their feet. We will start this process this week and I will let you all know how they are doing as time goes. Any helpful ideas, please let me know, thank you again,
Mia edandmiamurphy@frontier.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Dry lot them all and get them back on hay during the spring. You have to introduce them slowly to lush pasture. Even if some of them have not foundered, they may be on the verge of it. UAA Gel is great for turning grass founder around after you have reduced their grass intake. Letting them go suddenly from eating dry hay to lush new grass is asking for trouble. The grass becomes less of a problem as it gets hotter and drier out. Another danger time is in the fall when it gets rainier, and the grass gets lusher again, but spring is the worst time. May is really prime time for founder in Ohio, anyway.
Not surprised to hear their grass founder was missed. I even took Max to a vet in the throes of grass founder who thought maybe he had been quicked during his most recent reset--although there had been 10 days between the reset and the onset of lameness. How could a vet miss something this obvious? This was back in '93.
Very informative!!
ShelleyMMc@aol.com
Hi! My name is Molly. I am so happy to have come across your site. It offers so much hope to owners of foundered horses. I own 4 ponies and 3 of 4 have had bouts of laminitis. Grass has been the culprit every time. I am very interested in this trimming method, but am hesitant to attempt it myself. But I'm lucky if I can get a farrier out here every two months and with the number of affect animals I have it would be great for me to learn to do it myself. I am also highly interested in the effects of supplementing magnesium into a chronically foundered horse's diet. It seems to be a neglected part of a horse's diet. None of the supplements I have used have contained much if any. I haven't found much information regarding the importance of magnesium in a horse's diet. My ponies also have that cresty "founder neck". I went to a greenhouse today to get some dolomitic limestone. They came up with some in pellet form. Is it safe to use the pelleted form if I grind it up, or do they use some other harmful compound to get it in pelleted form?? And I was wondering with the high calcium content of limestone, doesn't that mess up the calcium to phosphorous ratio in the rest of the diet? Also, what sort of high magnesium mineral block is safe? I looked around at the local farm store and found a high magnesium mineral block called Vita Sweet, but it was a block designed for cattle. I've heard some of the cattle blocks are bad for horses. Sorry so many questions. Thanks so much for sharing all you've learned with us! My e-mail is:
m7510@ligtel.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Contact the dolomite manufacturer directly to find out if there are any additives in the pelleted dolomite.
If your ponies have cresty founder necks, and you live in an area of the country where farmers must lime their overly acid soil to get better crop growth, there is a strong likelihood that your animals would benefit from magnesium. Those "sweet mag" cattle blocks are what I have been using, and many other people I know, too. They do not hurt a thing, but are actually beneficial. Cattlemen here have to use them to supplement the new grass, which is deficient in magnesium, to prevent grass tetany in cattle. Grass tetany basically is caused by a magnesium deficiency. Much hay out there is grown on lime-deficient fields, so the hay itself does not provide enough calcium and magnesium. Purina 12/12 has ingredients that are almost the same as the high-mag cattle blocks, although it is in a loose form rather than a block.
Horses who have not had access to sweet mag blocks will absolutely devour them until they get enough of the minerals they instinctively crave, and then consumption will fall off. I have brought people these blocks, and one horse will finish off a 40 lb. block in a few months. Once they have had them a while, the same block will last for a year or two. When I put these blocks out in the run-in shed where I used to board, the pasture horses initially ran through these like buzz-saws.
You will see improvements in coat and hoof horn quality as well.
In parts of the country where the soil is rich in minerals, like in arid regions, these blocks and the dolomite may not be needed. Ask your local Agricultural Extension Office what you local soil typically is deficient in. Whatever the soil is deficient in, the feed grown on it will have the same deficiencies as well.
Great site. Our horse has just begun to founder and we have been given many different opinions by people who have "been around horses for years". We were beginning to lose heart when we discovered your site and are pleased to see that your information has been researched and tested. We have begun trimming immediately and have noticed a mild improvement in his gait already. Thanks very much, ADAM, WENDY and of course SONNY.
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
I am assuming you are having grass founder, May being prime time around here for this....
Get some UAA Gel into him ASAP! Or whatever other activated charcoal product you can get your hands on. And drylot him. You need to attack this from both the mechanical and chemical angles. The faster you act, the less damage you will have. Keeping him moving constantly on soft ground is also key. Boots will also help make exercise less painful, but don't leave them on all the time. They enable exercise on harder ground while still keeping him comfortable.
Good luck, and keep me posted on your progress! Give Sonny a massage from me! :-)
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Good Afternoon Gretchen:
I am a Texas Farrier and was "steered" to your website by my daughter, who is a web designer http://www.starrwolf.com and an avid horse owner.
After perusing the site to get the flavor of things, I find it very informative and [what I read was] right on point.
Laminitis is something which plagues every horse owner in one way or another, and good, solid diagnostic and treatment advice is hard to come by for the average horse owner w/o incurring *HUGE* Vet and/or Farrier bills. Your website helps to reduce that expense while doing the equine population a great service.
My daughter hopes to have my website online within the next few months and when it goes *live* it will have a link to your site.
Keep up the great work, Gretchen.
If you or anyone wishes to email me I am online daily and respond promptly when I get the message.
Sincerely,
Eli Wolf
Email: Farrier@Starrwolf.Com
Website: http://www.starrwolf.com/Ask_The_Farrier
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
I have a new link up that tells the story of a horse whose treatment was not effective even though the owner spent HUGE sums of money on him. He finally is getting turned around--dramatically--by Sabine Kells. Sabine uses mainly a hoof knife and rasp, lots of exercise, and herd living conditions outdoors to keep him moving. This humble approach is succeeding where vet schools failed--David is slaying Goliath here!
http://members.screenz.com/gretchenfathauer/Nova.htm
Check it out! --Gretchen Fathauer
Congratulations on your site. I could eulogise about it for a long time, so have sent you an e-mail instead. I'll be back frequently.
Sally Mayo 6, rue des Champs 8360 GOETZINGEN Luxembourg
smayo@europarl.eu.int
Dear Gretchen, I can't thank you enough for your site. I am a first time horse owner, and got my saddlebred mare in March, she had foundered 3 years ago after being retired from the show ring, the owner didn't know to take her off the high protein diet,- Well she foundered on me this past weekend, I think due to the alfalfa feed she was grazing in (bad move on my part). I don't know the extent of her foundering, I had noticed her walking funny for a couple of days, and by the third day she was down and I knew something was really wrong!! The vet came out and put lily pads on her and put her on bute. I got the farrier out two days later to be trimmed - but I don't think he trimmed her good enough. thanks to you we are going to learn to trim ourselves. My farrier was a student of Lyle "Bergy" Bergeleen, but I had my doubts on this method seeing it is so controversial, but also please keep in mind that the Bergy method is good, but that doesn't always mean the student is!! but after reading your site i feel much more confident. It had been very hard to know who is right in this world of horse people. Vets and ferriers have different opinions and even farriers fight amongst themselves, how do you know who to listen to? Sonny also has the thick neck and butt, so I am going to try the dolomite ASAP. How much do you give the horse and how? Thank you so much for all your hard work, you have no idea how much it will and has helped us and hundreds more!!! :) Pam Horseluvr@hotbot.com
This is a wonderful, informative site. You had just the information I was looking for. Excellent. Bonnie Boetcher, showtell@inficad.com
Can a horse diagnosed with navicular changes in one foot be helped by going barefoot? A big, heavy, muscular horse (1,300 lbs.) with size 0 front feet? He's been ok with "corrective" shoeing, his feet are in excellent condition, but in my heart I feel he should be barefoot. Thanks for all the effort you've put into providing us with a truly helpful and informative web site! Bonnie B., showtell@inficad.com
Greetings From Texas Bonnie and Visitors:
Let me clarify that I am a Texas Farrier and not a Veterinarian. The following is my opinion and should not be interpreted as a substitute for qualified medical advice. <whew .. a mouthful>
Bonnie B asks, "Can a horse diagnosed with navicular changes in one foot be helped by going barefoot?"
My first, best answer would be *it depends*.
Is this diagnosis stemming from x-ray? Further, is it a pre-purchase warning, or, a clinical problem?
Is it talking about the Nav bone showing "change" or "movement" which might become a problem later, or, is it a soon-coming clinical problem?
Will the horse benefit from being barefooted? I will say, again, *depends*.
If the problem requires relief to the tendons, then, being unshod might not be the best approach from a support point of view.
Bear in mind that shoes are not a save-all and can easily aggravate the problem if the prep and setting are not done properly. By "properly" I mean with the guidance of an attending Vet and with the horse's hoof balance in mind.
If, on the other hand, the foot is fine for the most part and the "changes" are minor and can be managed and reduced via proper trimming and balance with low exertion, then, by all means leave the shoes on the shelf.
In closing, I will say that I advocate leaving a horse unshod whenever possible and practical. When I work on a horse I keep the horse's best interest in mind in everything I do and therapeutic shoeing needs to be with the guidance and blessing of the attending Vet.
Happy Trails!!
Eli Wolf Texas Farrier Email: Farrier@Starrwolf.Com Website: http://www.starrwolf.com/Ask_The_Farrier
Thanks for your comments, they are very much appreciated. I have owned this horse for 3 years, and he has always been "off" which ultimately led to unsoundness in his right front foot. X-ray of both front feet revealed "minor" navicular changes in the right foot only (some lollipops), no movement of the navicular bone. Shoeing by my very excellent farrier in egg bar shoes resulted in immediate relief for Dancer. During the course of the year that he wore egg bar shoes his feet remodeled MUCH better and stronger than they had ever been. This is a horse that was broke at 2, used hard until was 11, always shod long toe low heel because his gaits were smoother that way (he's a Foxtrotter). After a year in egg bar shoes we put him back in regular keg shoes (wide web), and for the past 9 months he's been sound that way. He's at a 52 degree angle. So, knowing all this, what do you think? Thanks! -- Bonnie B., showtell@inficad.com
Eli Wolf, Texas Farrier, writes: ...................
Afternoon Nancy and Viewers:
I must add my 2-cents to that of Gretchen's here.
Nancy states: "... I have a [3 yr old] mare who is not foundered or diagnosed Navicular ... with really long toes/undershot heels/dropped soles. I have kept her barefoot and trim her toes constantly, but have left the heels alone."
Nancy, no, no, don't leave those heels alone. Gretchen is absolutely correct in that if you leave the heels alone you'll be sacrificing adequate coffin bone support as well as allowing the foot to deteriorate by leaving the frog too high and avoiding proper expansion and contraction of the foot.
The frog area starts at the apex and runs back to the rear of the foot widening as it goes. Solid frog contact in weight bearing is essential to proper expansion and contraction of the foot which contributes to adequate blood circulation of the foot and leg, and is a key player in the big picture.
I recommend keeping a horse unshod whenever possible and practical and manage the foot with proper trimming. Among other things, proper trimming should include removal of sidewall flares (to the point of allowance if walls are thin), slight rounding of the horn edge to prevent cracks and damage, slight horn growth below the sole for weight-bearing, proper hoof-pastern axis, medial-lateral balance, and little toe, no sole growth removal.
Furthermore, I agree with Gretchen when she stated, "... The keys are lowering the heels, keeping the toes short and BACKED UP, and all edges well rounded. Do not pare off the sole callous at the toe."
I will add to this that "short" is not the same as "dubbed". When backing up the toe it shouldn't exceed the proper balance point of the hoof-pastern axis and "rounding" should only be a few degrees and not so drastic as to "dub" the toe.
Gretchen is correct in that the sole should not be cleaned out to expose new growth in either a barefoot or shod horse. The sole needs protection and as long as it does not interfere with placement of the shoe of a shod horse the sole growth should be left alone, and always left alone in a barefooted horse and allowed to slough off naturally.
When Gretchen states, "If your horse's feet are short-toe and high-heel, you will be more prone to get concussion problems, and a rough, short-strided, clumsy gait." As a Farrier I refer to this as "club-foot" and should be avoided at all costs. I have also heard it referred to as "standing a horse up" in some circles.
I will close by stating that Nancy is not alone in her misunderstanding of trimming technique. I will gladly assist any horseowner in learning how to trim their horse(s).
Happy Trails!!
Eli Wolf Texas Farrier http://www.starrwolf.com/Ask_The_Farrier
My husband and I have both read this article and found the information clear and concise. We own a Shetland mare of 7 years who was badly foundered before we purchased her. Her hooves were three inches tall, and "posty". We are using your method to lower the heels. Her toe doesn't need to be backed much, but we shave a little off the front each time we trim. We're able to trim every week because she's becoming more active and the hoof is pulling up. I am amazed at the rapidity of our progress and how much her posture and attitude have improved. This pony used fight being caught, but now willingly walks up when I have her halter. We have only taken about a half inch off, but I hesitate to trim too much for fear of making her too sore. I was wondering if we should leave a little of the "dead" sole, or if we should trim all of the way back to healthy hoof material at once. I hesitate to do that for fear of hurting her legs. Please let me know. Anna katieroo@odsgc.net
Gretchen, your entire website is fabulous, not only for its incredible content of information, but for the obviously huge amount of time you have dedicated to its creation.
I've lost two horses to founder in the past. One was saved by heartbars and gave me several more years of service. The other was euthanised upon rotation as he also had two other degenerative, irreversible hoof and leg problems. Now, unbelievably, I have yet another horse who inexplicably rotated about 4 degrees on one front foot a year after undergoing extremely radical resection from ground to coronary for a severe toe crack which was shearing at the coronary and had caused a column of dead laminae and P3 demineralization at its tip. Combining the trimming method I'd seen on your website along with a heartbar shoe, which I had faith in due to said previous experience, my horse seemed to be making great progress (after early abscessing problems, etc). To my horror, however, one year later, he recently suffered a bout of bilateral laminitis which is slowly improving with Bute and removal from pasture. He's now in a sandy lot with a tiny amount of grass, hopefully to be carefully reintroduced to pasture soon. The worst news now, is that x-rays taken two weeks ago (at first signs of his laminitis) reveal that his rotated P3 has yet to improve at all. Due to his many setbacks last year, his laminae continued to die, thus the rapid horn growth of this horse has nonetheless left him with live laminae only 2/3 of the way down. Of course, the hope here is that this leaves room for good things to yet occur.
So now, it's been two years of twice daily nursing/maintenance on this young (now 7), loveable, very talented, gentle giant (17H and 1400+lbs - probably part of his problem), Saddlebred, 5-gaited road/trail gelding. His disposition is what keeps me dedicated to saving him. I've gone through a half dozen Sabre Sneakers - wonderful invention by Sally Chamberlain(!) - because I don't turn him out without protection from losing the heartbar in the mud and wooded areas of our pastures. He comes in at night for its removal and to be able to lie down in a dry stall. He runs the aisle as well, for added exercise during his 8-10 hrs indoors. Now, though, I've switched (as I always do when he's got an open wound, e.g from his original surgery and again for resected sole abscess) to wrapping the foot in a half roll of Vetrap and applying a 4-layer thick sole of duct tape (which also comes off every night). I'm doing this now because his crack has redeveloped (I've since discovered his dam is plagued with a less severe version of the same thing) and is gaping open with each step - this time laterally - and I want to keep it clean. As before, he now sports a large plate across the crack to help stabilize it.
I've gone into all this detail here to see if anyone else has had experience with a lameness causing crack that defies all treatment. And also to say that my faith in the heartbar shoe has been somewhat shaken and I'm now considering your barefoot approach, although I know he'll be 3-legged lame again without it, so I'll need to follow your advice that I see regarding that subject.
Thank you for this mountain of information, Gretchen! It gives me renewed hope for my beloved "Thud".
Wendy Tobler Willis, MI wtobler@tdi.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
"Thud's" case illustrates that heartbars and resections are not always the panacea they are presented as being.
If he is kept barefoot and his toes backed up into the white line, and this is CONSTANTLY MAINTAINED by 2-3x weekly trims, it will completely remove any leverage on the toe. As he has some rotation, anyway, this would be a good idea in that respect as well. No shoes can be reset 2-3x weekly, which is what it will take to constantly take all leverage off this toe. A barefoot approach allows you to do this.
You can just use his Sabre Sneakers, without heartbars, for exercise and turnout.
Personally, I would advise you to send him up to Canada to have Sabine Kells work on him, as she has been on Nova. The charges are quite reasonable for the excellent work they do up there. At the very least, do the phone/photo consultations.
Restoring hoof function via exercise and frequent correct trims will be the most promising road for Thud. Be prepared for him to be more sore after you start, however, Restoring circulation to the feet, which this will do, will also increase feeling--and the ability to feel pain. This could go on for a fewl months. You will also be looking at abscesses, in all likelihood. Still, it is a more promising approach. Obviously, the heartbars and resections have not worked if you have been doing this approach for 2 years with no improvement.
--Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
I have found the information to be very helpful. My horse has never foundered (knock on wood) but from the information you have presented, does possess the possibility (hard, cresty neck). He has been barefoot for almost a year now, love the results, although will purchase Jaime's book to work on the trim. Thank you for the wealth of information. Carmen ccannon@neo.rr.com
Dear Gretchen,
My name is Leslie Hamilton and I am working with Sabine and Nova. There is another seminar June 19/20. Please note that the photo you showed of the heels being lowered is before there was any trimming done, at that point, they were still 6.5 inches long!! If you look carefully, the heel ends a LONG way down. It appears low because of the angle, but look for the weight bearing point. You may want to point out that the finished trim left Nova with less than 1 inch of heel including the lateral cartilage. I have set up an e-mail for Sabine and I, if you wouldn't mind posting it for us, its: Eshopcanada@hotmail.com Thanks, Leslie Hamilton
Hi Gretchen, A friend pointed your site to me. It's extremely interesting and makes a lot of sense. Nails and shoeing must both restrict hoof growth and affect the insensitive laminae; going barefoot must be better for the horse's foot health. Correct and frequent foot trimming (shod or unshod) is vital to maintain the correct angle of the hoof - have you ever tried typing when your fingernails are too long?! Definitely every 4 weeks even for a normal horse though refitting nailed shoes every 4 weeks means a lot of nail holes in their hooves. Makes going barefoot and building up the sole toughness even more sensible an option. It's not just Lippizaners who don't wear shoes, many UK dressage horses are never shod, although worked only on soft squishy ground of menages, their hooves can splay. Sue Rogers, scr27@cam.ac.uk
Wow! This is absolutely wonderful!
I have been trimming my own horses for 30 years....maintaining a barefoot on all and trimming every 4 weeks (or whenever the foot started losing its shape..which could be sooner). My horses were previously kept on soil and although I had great feet on them, since my move to Idaho, I am seeing something very different! I live on a 'gravel bank' where the horses' feet are constantly filed as they fly over the acres chasing each other. Their soles and frogs are polished and hard...just as you had described. In fact, they are glossy! I don't have to trim them as often since the amount of exercise they get takes care of most of that for me. I am NOT a slacker...and am a fanatic about my horses appearance and care (I breed Arabians...the old fashioned kind). I get tired of farriers breaking appointments and got Easy boots for trail use. My horses run barefoot the rest of the time. Remarkable site...I will send others to see it!
Melanie Johnson PAYBACK RANCH ARABIANS CARMEN, IDAHO payback@dmi.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Send me pictures of their feet! This is exactly what we are trying to achieve.
Fantastic pages. Incredibly interesting!
Well done Gretchen!
Regards,
Per-Tore ptaa@ieee.org (BTW, do you remember me?)
Yes! :-)
Recently I purchased a 17 yr old Belgian mare from PA for riding and driving. Although I'd seen several photos of her prior to purchasing her, each one had shown her standing with her feet hidden behind hay or another horse. Upon her arrival here in exas, I saw she was foundered and had several abscesses in her hooves. Although it appears to be pretty mild to me, and she gets around her pasture quite well, the local vet and farriers tell me to put her down. She is not suffering and cruises about her pasture like she owns the place. they simply don't want to fool with her. I already have almost $2000 in this mare, and I'm not going to just give up because a pack of jaded old farts think if they can't fix it, no one can. Everything I've read here goes against everything I've ever been told for curing foundered houses, but it makes sense and I'm going to give it a go. Cross your fingers for us! Jade NRAJade@aol.com
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
This is not at all hopeless! Try the Strasser stuff and do the phone/photo consultations with Sabine Kells.
Jade sent me a photo of this mare's foot--not even sole penetration! And if she's getting around pretty well on top of it, why would everyone be in favor of euthanasia?
I found your article on founder and wild horse trimming very interesting and thorough. I use this method and shoe "By the Numbers" with special emphasis on the shape, frog contact, angle (Normally 54 Front 56 Rear) and breakover point. Woody Gray, grayl@accessus.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
Trying to aim for a specific toe angle can be a trap. I had a farrier doing Max before I started doing my own trimming who achieved that magic 53 degrees in the front with high heels instead of backing of the toe. If you back up the toe and lower the heels, the results should be within a decent range. Bergy does not worry too much about toe angle. Dr. Strasser does not dwell on it as much as trimming to position the coffin bone correctly to the ground and backing up breakover, to over-simplify. She and Jaime seem to disagree on toe angles, and I am not sure how this will be resolved, as they both endorse each other's work.
How can you have "emphasis on frog contact" when you are jacking the frog up off the ground with shoes? Afraid I don't understand this.
I'm enjoying your detail site enormously.
My mare is a stocky thing that has a cresty neck - she's not foundered (16 yo), but did have some on/off lamenes a few years ago that was diagnosed as degenerative navicular syndrome. However, after several months of being out, she was able to be put back in work with regular shoes. Of course, any misstep causes me to stare hard at her feet.
I would love to be able to toughen her up and have her go shoeless.
Where is the best place to start? She is a dressage horse, housed in a large paddock with run in shed. Our ring is pulverized stone, which wears steel shoes down so they can't be reset in 6 weeks. I've noticed that even shod, she gets "tender-footed" in deeper sand arenas or ones with smaller rocks. To be honest, her front heels are a little contracted.
The farrier comes to the barn fairly regularly ... is there something I can show him and say, "I want you to do this every 3 weeks?"
Gosh, I wish the clinics were somewhere within a day's drive ...
Well, thanks for a very thought provoking site. Good luck with all your animal companions.
Chris Mills ccmills@vnet.ibm.com
Hi - I found your site while I was searching for information on torn suspensory ligaments. My mare is not foundered, but she has torn suspensory ligaments in both rear legs (long story). She was also lame on the left front at one point and the vet recommended egg bar shoes - he said it may be navicular. Anyway, I don't know if this would help her carry herself more comfortably. I do know that I'd like to learn how to do it myself. I have had a lot of trouble trying to find decent farriers that show up and do a good job. It's ten times harder to find one that will also set the front feet down frequently and not raise them to high while they are being shod (it shifts her weight to her rear and her back legs start shaking). I am in Austin, Texas, is there anyone around here that could teach me? Anyone within a days drive? I don't dare try it on my own!
Thank you, Christina Blue (cblue@ilovechocolate.com)
Very informative. Am presently implementing the wild horse trim on a chronically foundered 17 year old competitive trail horse. Am thankful I have a willing farrier, open to new suggestions! Patricia J. Barr pbarr@netins.net
Very informative articles. Thanks for your time and input. I have a paint mare that has some form of laminitis or founder about every year in the Spring, when new grass is coming on. Farrier feels like keeping her shod all year long helps, but from your article, apparently not. We have been doing all the wrong things. X-Rayed her this past week and only have a 3-4 degree rotation, not too bad, but bad enough to make her sore and uncomfortable. Also she has had the thick neck for over a year now. This first appeared 2 years ago when she first foundered. I have printed out all 87 pages of your information and plan to put some of it to practice. Keep up the good work you are doing. Thanks.
REH-Ohio rham@aceinter.net
Have been hearing about this method; thank you for an informative web site. Will be back to read in detail.
Dr. Liz Zabinski, DC member American Veterinary Chiropractic Association. e-mail: akcpk1@aol.com
I have a foundered mare and have learned a lot. I am going to show your article to my vet and farrier and see what we can do to help her. She also has a bowed tendon that we are working with, but she had them for a while before I got her, so we are doing a lot of trial and error. But your article has given me new "Hope" (my mares name is Hope) because we hoped she could pull through. She was in such bad shape when I got her that several people thought I should put her down, but she had such heart that I had to give her a chance. She has improved greatly. She is 15.2hh and is up to about 1000lbs., up from 600lbs. when I got her about 11 months ago. Now I will try some of the things in your article.
Thank you, Tracey McCostlin mj109funnyfarm@hotmail.com
After spending 3+ hours reading and looking at pictures, I believe my appaloosa will be a sound horse once again. He was on bute 6 grams a day for just one week, when he developed a SEVERE case of impaction. In fact, so severe the vets would not even give odds on whether or not he would live. 6 days and 6 gallons of mineral oil later, and a few bouts of colic, he is back with us. Diagnosis says the bute caused him to quit drinking adequate amounts of water, thus causing impaction. Readers, beware of bute in large doses! We all but lost our horse. We intend to try wild horse trimming and will let you know the results. Thank you for a very informative web page and we'll visit you oiften.
Ron and Judy Stephens cheyene70@hotmail.com
Thank you so much for all of your helpful information. My mare foundered on April 13,1999 form my Vet administering her yearly shots. (Rabies). Within three hours after the shots she started to go lame, and I contacted the vet. She said to give her some bute and see if she was better in the morning. She quickly went down hil, and it's been a nightmare ever since. Unfortunately, she gave me very bad advice by telling me not to let the blacksmith trim her because she was too sore. So for 8 weeks my mares feet continued to grow, and all the Vet had to say was she was continuing to founder and that was very common. The truth is after reading your information, I should have have had her trimmed immediately. If I could have kept her toe trimmed back when this first happened she may not be in as bad of condition as she is now. I have since contacted another Vet, who agrees that I should have never been told to not let the Blacksmith trim her. Fortunately, I found your web site, and I'm taking control of this situation. She is only having her feet trimmed and all of your information has been given to the Balcksmith I am using, and he is in complete agreement with your methods. Thank you again. I only wish I had read your web page before.
Debra Kroboth Sarasota, Florida tmiss116@MSN.com
I just read your article from start to finish, and am pleased to see that someone else agrees with me. I've have some really good luck treating foundered horses with pretty much the same method as you described. I arrived at this method after just reviewing x-rays and drawings of foundered horses' bones. I don't generally tell other farriers what I do on foundered horses, because I have discovered that most do not agree with the lowered heels. However, I've had pretty good luck with it, and they are all setting heart bars, regular bar shoes, and fancy (and time-consuming and expensive) pads.
Oh well!
I enjoyed reading your site, and might purchase some of the reference materials you indicated. Thanks for taking the time to share your info via the Internet!
Toni P Iowa
How happy I am to have found your site. It is beautifully done. My 12 y.o. Morgan mare foundered for the 2nd time in April. I was aware of Jaime's "The Natural Horse," but had found it impossible in this SW corner of Colorado to get the farrier attention necessary. 2 months between farrier visits is considered good, and 3 or longer acceptable--even with a foundered horse. I do have a new farrier who might be willing, and have printed out a copy for him.
Meanwhile, I have had real good success in correcting rotation nutritionally and using herbal formulas for founder and laminits from www.meadowsweetacres.com and I am waiting for tinctures to rebalance metabolism plus hoof oil to detox and promote hoof health from Australian herbalist Robert MacDowell, www.herbaltreatment.com. Blood work as shown liver dysfunction and elevated (2x) Cortisol leading to a tentative diagnosis of Cushings. However she has none of the other clinical symptoms.
In addition I have her on Advanced Biological Concepts ABC Plus digestive tract nutritional pack, and Hoof formula with a 1/4 cup of organic cider vinegar. I am amazed at the amount of B Vitamin mix she has consumed. She has free choice vitamin, mineral, detox blend, kelp & blue green algae. In 5 weeks the correction in her right fore was from 7 to 2 degrees and in the left 6 to 5.
This year the mare had just been shod. The farrier took her really short and did pare the sole. She had been sound for 10 months, barefoot for the winter, and ridden barefoot in the canyons. This was her 2nd shoeing of the season. I moved her and rode her lightly. She appeared to have pulled a shoulder muscle--too much bucking and playing--confirmed by the farrier. And had concussion-foundered within 10 days per the Vet. Since she had been trimmed so short we did not pull shoes. My Vet gave acepromazine & bute, used a foam fill to support the coffin bone, and kept her in a small shavings-bedded paddock. After waiting 9 weeks, I changed farriers. She does now have shoes, with the intent of more frequent trims. She is still way too long all around. I am hoping on reading your information that he will be willing to follow the wild horse trim, and I want to let her go barefoot.
I have done some light round pen work with her, and rode her yesterday on soft dirt for about 15-20 mins. There is no sign of lameness or any soreness. I believe that with the help in these pages and following both Jaime's and Bergy's directions that full recovery is possible.
This mare does have a fair crest and it is as hard as a rock. She is overweight, though not obese. I have had her 9 years. She doesn't sweat easily, and the only way to keep her trim is long hours of work over many miles. Impossible to do foundered. So I am most interested in the magnesium, dolomite possibility.
Thanks for this wonderful site, the encouragement and contacts.
Sally Mason won@frontier.net
Hi, Gretchen, I have really enjoyed your site. We have a foundered 2-yr.-old, that I am going to write to you about. I found a lot of things stated here that I believe to be really interesting, and I am willing to try them.
Tracie Clough 12520 Calhoun Rd. Jerome, Mi. 49249
tc_appy@yahoo.com
I would like to say that your site is excellent. It provides extremely detailed and good information. I am currently in the beginning with a battle of founder (grass founder we believe). We have caught it fairly early. Our farrier decided to keep him barefoot, but I had no idea about wild horse cuts. I knew nothing about it until I read what you have offered. I would like to thank you for sharing your experiences and information.
Thank You, Lolita Matson bohicas@atlantic.net
I really found quite a lot of information on your website - information that is useful and informative is a good thing! I have a friend with a founder situation in a pony that has become chronic, frustrating and expensive for her to treat. I downloaded your information and will forward it to her in the hopes that she and Bambi can find a workable solution to their problem.
Sally Wallis swallis@seistl.com
Hello. My name is Mary and I could use your help. I recently adopted a horse who is in serious condition, due to neglect from his previous owners. When I adopted him and my stallion, both from the same place, I was not properly informed of their true health conditions. My gelding is the one in serious condition. I had to take him to the University of Florida's vet school, where they first told me it would be better to put him down. I fell in love with both horses the moment I met them and vowed to them that, should they ever become mine, I'd take care of them and do the best I could for their happiness. I have found a small handful of doctors who are currently doing what they can, as well as the university's farrier, to save his life. He has severe foundering/laminitis/white line disease in both front feet. There is a 25% rotation in the right front foot and a 20% rotation in the left front foot. Both have dropped slightly. Due to negligance of the previous owner, the white line disease has infected and deteriorated a majority of the hoof on both feet. The farrier has done a partial resection on both and has him on premolded pads that I must change every other day and let the pads and his feet air out. I walk him around, on lead line, for about 15 minutes a day.......two of the vets said I shouldn't let him out at all. One of the vets, who specializes in holistic medicines and is helping my gelding with acupuncture, says I should walk him around for 1/2 hour to an hour a day. I am afraid. My gelding has NEVER been allowed to walk around outside for 11 years and spooks very easily at things. I love to get him walking around, since I know it helps with circulation and mental stimulation, among other things, but when he spooks, I'm afraid he'll cause more damage to his feet, since all he has on them are pads held on by elastic tape. Please, I am trying to save this sweet horse and keep my other horse, my stallion (who has a rotation/founder in his front left foot with bad white line disease as well). Any information you can provide to assist me in saving these two boys who, like all animals, deserve a better life than what they had, I'd greatly appreciate. We don't have a lot of money, but we want to provide the best we can to save these two boys. Please, help us. Our email address is crystal@totcon.com and my name is Mary.
Hello Gretchen:
Thank you for the information and photos you sent over. I made contact with the owners and hopefully things are on their way to being under control.
I just went through a *huge* ordeal helping a Nebraska stable owner through a serious "Selenium Toxicity" situation wherein the hooves were sloughing off in pieces. I put them in touch with the Texas A&M Univ. Vets I work with who can take it from where I left off.
Keep up the great work you're doing with your website here. My new "Ask The Farrier" site is up now and I sure have been busy fielding questions from horse owners and trainers from all over the world.
I was contacted through my website by a stable owner who had such a bad problem with their horses aggravated by bad Farriers that they ended up hiring me for a consultation. After the better part of the weekend spent with their horses things are well on there way to recovery. I also referred them to your site to read up on the great info here.
I was actually floored, Gretchen, when I received an email from a lady in Sweden stating that she wanted to contact the "... famous Eli Wolf." In later emails she went on to tell me that I had a pretty good reputation in her Country. Strange thing about it, Gretchen, is I have never been to her Country, yet, I am held in high regard. Flattering in the least. <smile>
I have added a link on my website to yours under my "Medical" links category.
Take care my friend.
Happy Trails!!
Eli Wolf Texas Farrier -----x----- Email: farrier @starrwolf.com Web Site: http://www.starrwolf.com/Ask_The_Farrier
Gretchen Fathauer's response to Eli Wolf--
Wait a minute! I never mailed any photos or referrals to you. This is my guestbook, not a billboard for people to advertise themselves. The guestbook is a place for people to share their experiences, or to ask for help. I do endorse some products and individuals, based on good experiences with them, but nobody pays me to do it. Keeps me honest!
Your web site makes very plain that you endorse shoeing with either heartbars or shoes nailed on backwards for founder. Both these scenarios "work" because they restrict circulation even more than regular keg shoes. Reduced circulation reduces feeling and apparent pain levels. Heartbars and shoes nailed on backwards are nailed on further back, and both restrict heel expansion even more than regular shoeing. The horse may be more apparently comfortable, but you don't make a lot of progress in terms of structural improvements over the long haul. The best frog-support shoeing scenario, in terms of allowing more hoof function, is mushroom-shaped TheraFlex pads put on with tips. What I am advocating may not be as comfortable for the horse for some time, but will actually result in more structural imrpovement over the long haul.
I also do not agree that bute is the main thing to give during an acute episode of laminitis. Your web site seems to endorse bute, but not much else, for laminitis. I used to think bute was the main thing to use, too, until I found out how much more effective activated charcoal is. Bute still has uts uses, but using the charcoal at the onset enables you to use a lot less bute. Considering the stomach problems some horses can have with bute, this is a good thing. I recently heard from a trainer I know in Ohio who was unable to find UAA Gel, and got a similar product, Toxi-Ban, from Jeffers. She was delighted with how fast it knocked out the episode. Everyone who has actually tried activated charcoal that I've heard from has had good experiences with it.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
I have thoroughly enjoyed this article, and have every intention of showing it to my farrier and getting this started. I already have six horses, all barefooted, and all pretty much pasture pets.
My farrier hesitated when I had him pull all of the shoes six months ago, because I was only riding 1 or 2 times a week for short periods. He said that one of my horses shows (by her growth patterns) a history of founder, and hated to see her go barefooted.
Well, I will learn to do the mustang trim pronto... and show him a thing or two about healthy feet (not to mention the hassle of him being late/no show/reschedule all of the time).
Sincerly, Debra L. Weiss dweiss@saleslogix.com
Your website is the best. I had no hope for my mare until I read it. My mare foundered at a breeding barn because they were overfed her. My mare has rotated 10 to 15 degrees. One of vets in my area wanted me to put her down, another one had a very bad out come and another one thinks she will be ok, but it will be along road to go. Your website has given so much hope. Thank your for that. She is my best friend and it will be hard for me to put her down, but I don't want her to be in pain. This has been going on for about 6 weeks now, and she is still in much pain. She has good days and bad ones. Today is a bad one. I have ordered both Dr. Strasser's and Jaime Jackson's books. If you have question on different things on this subject do you mind ansewering them? Because boy, I have them. My mare's toe angles are about 60 degrees right now and with a square toe. About every other day she is down for about 8 hours and up for about 2 to 4 hours. She is in about 2 feet of shavings, on nitro, tagament, 4 tab of bute and banamine as needed and she needed it two times today. Once about 3 days ago. I hate these days. I'm not a crying person, but boy, it is hard not to on days like these one. She also has stopped drinking unless I hold the bucket up to her; this is the only way that I can get her to drink. I have tried everything to get her to do on her own, but it does not work . With her taking all the meds they tell me that she needs drink a lot, but that is least of her problem right now. Thank so much for these website. It looks like you have put much time into it and I cannot thank you enough.
Paul Olson 619 East Garden Farm Rd Rossville, Ga. 30741 706-861-4603 PIZZA@aol.com
Gretchen Fathauer-s update--
This sad case illustrates what I am talking about when I say that trying to treat laminitis mainly with drugs is not the answer, and actually dangerous. This mare, despite the heavy drug doses, got more painful, was down a lot and quit eating and drinking. She was put down ten days later. I am not sure if all the NSAIDs had ulcerated her stomach, or if she had kidney and liver overload. The fact that she was not drinking much, especially in weather in the upper 90's, was alarming. Even a well horse only drinking less than a bucket a day in hot weather will soon get sick.
I wish we could have tried some of the mechanical means on her earlier, and that she had been treated with charcoal as soon as he got her out of the breeding farm. I feel very sad about how things turned out.
Gretchen - Wonderful site.
I have a small, Arab mare that has a propensity to gain weight. She is also a little Hitler, and dominates our other horse, which is a giant Friesian. Needless to say, she has gotten more than her share, and the veterinarian said that she is "trying" to founder. She is not showing any of the extreme signs of founder that you have on your pages. She is just tender on her feet.
Ironically, I believe what has saved her feet is that she is barefoot on hard, rocky soil. (Not a lot of grass - lots of decomposed granite. They have about 3 acres to move around on. There are some sandy places where she can stand to get away from the hard ground.) I stopped trimming her about two years ago and just let her go natural - as the shoer kept coming out and telling me that she didn't need to be done. (I have had the vet look at her feet many times just to make sure that they are o.k.) I use Easy Boots when we go riding. This approach is kind of strange where I live - most everyone has shoes on their horses, and, I know, think that I'm am either weird or cheap. I also don't trim their hair anywhere - so they are pretty natural. ( I guess I was way ahead of my time and didn't know it?)
My little mare is on only grass hay now, and no snacks. (The horses were getting half grass, half alfalfa, handfuls of grain, carrots or apples for treats. They got to a bale of alfalfa through the fence, and I think that this is what put her over the edge.) She is not happy. However, she is moving better and not quite so ouchy. I had to explain to her that life is not fair.
My question is this. Her neck is cresty. I am interested in the supplements that encourage reducing this phenomenon. My vet says that she is just fat, and that we have to get the weight off. However, if there is something that can accelerate this or remove the toxins from these fatty areas of her body - I'm interested. (However, I will tell you that it sounds a lot like Thigh Cream to me.)
I'm also concerned about having something to mix the supplements in. I don't want to mix it with grain for obvious reasons. Are the Magnesium salt blocks the same as the brown, mineral salt blocks?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts!
Gretchen - One more question. I called the Sneaker person in Arizona with no answer - I haven't tried evening yet. What will he require to make boots for me?
What is the average price range (I won't hold you to it.)
I'm very interested in these, as the Easy Boots are somewhat difficult to get on and off, we lose them on the trail, they cut into the side of the hoof wall, and are work to fit properly. If I could get something custom made that would go on and off easily and that would stay on while riding, I would be very happy.
I was thinking that I could just send him what he needed to get started. Does he take credit cards?
Laurie lsweeney@pacbell.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply to the above post:
Frank is out during the day. You have to call him in the evening. I don't think he has an answering machine or voice mail yet.
He will send you impression foam blocks and a video on how to make the impressions and showing horses using Horsneakers at all gaits, in mud and water, etc. You then make the molds, and mail them back. After he gets the molds he makes the boots from these molds.
His price was $100 per boot because it is so labor-intensive. Many different materials are laid up by hand after the positive is made from the mold. I spoke with him recently, and he said that he has had a breakthrough on one of the components, the soft lining, which can now be laid up on the form in layers rather than cut and fitted out of sheet goods, which took a lot more time. So he is thinking he could possibly come down a bit on the price. How much, I don't know yet.
Don't get discouraged. These are far and away the best boots available, and you can get them resoled if need be. Every other boot I have tried has problems. Like you, I had Easy Boots soring horses. Same with Swiss Boots. Both can be tinkered with to improve fit, but Horsneakers already fit, and are the most comfortable alternative out there. Will email you privately with some people who are using them and are happy with them.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
I rescued my mare 1 yr. ago. She is 15 yrs. old and came to me in very bad shape. She has a bowed tendon on her left front leg along with being foundered. She breaks over at the ankle and her hoof doesn't grow correctly. It looks like the hoof you have pictured of Nova 3-17-99. Except she doesn't have that much toe. My farrier and I started the wild horse trim about 4 weeks ago. It has helped. When we first started trimming her heels she didn't break over so bad, but it doesn't seem to be working as well now, but you can see her trying to hold the leg straight. She IS a little better than when we started. I don't know if she breaks over because of being foundered or because of the bowed tendon. I keep her leg wrapped for support but I don't know if there is something else I should do. And because she keeps her ankle forward it doesn't let her toe grow out. My vet has suggested we brace her ankle and build up her toe. I know it will take time for the hoof to grow out, but her toe has been this way for as long as I've had her. And the way she holds her ankle won't let the toe grow out. I've tried wrapping the ankle to try to hold it straight but she still breaks over and the wrap ends up rubbing the back of her hoof on the coronary band leaving sores. Please, if you have any suggestions they would be a great help. Like I said I know it takes time but there must be something I can do to help. Thank you, Tracey McCostlin
I forgot to tell you my mare is on open pasture with other horses. She still spends a lot of time laying down. She has to walk to get water and grain like you suggest and she does spend some time grazing. She also gets farriers formula and extra biotin. I also soak her right hoof because she keeps abscessing in that hoof. She was like one other horse you talked about .She would almost fall on my farrier when he would trim her. It gets really bad sometimes because of her ankle. I stand and hold her ankle straight when he trims her so that she doesn't fall. Should she get more exerise? Is there a diet she needs to be on? She is only on sweet feed now, but I've tried several different things. She is very slender, but not poor. My vet suggest not to get her to heavy till her feet are better. Sorry that I keep going on, but you are the first person that understands that I'm trying to make her better. Everyone else thinks she would be better off being put down. To me that IS NOT something I would do. I can't get to Canada; is there some one in my area that might be able to help? I live in central Alabama.
Thanks again, Tracey McCostlin mj109funnyfarm@hotmail.com
P.S. I'm willing to try anything!!!!
Gretchen Fathauer's response:
Actually, wrapping and casts can create major circulation problems. Dr, Strasser has straightened out cases that were greatly aggravated by casts. When I do more additions to my web page in August, I will include some of her case photo case studies, which include a case with the whole coronet and fetlock blown up like a balloon from the circulation being impaired with a cast.
A case this complicated you should at the very least be doing phone/photo consultations, with either Sabine Kells (fax: 250-248-8838) or Jaime Jackson 870-743-4603. Jaime is in Harrison, Arkansas, which is closer to you. The absolute ideal scenario, if cost were no object, is flying the horse to Dr. Strasser, who would be your best bet. Shipping that far is really expensive, though. Maybe you can work something with Jaime.
Part of the problem you are running into is that realigning joints that have been out of alignment for so long will definitely get your mare sore. Restoring circulation a bit so the hoof can finally begin to repair itself is why you are getting more abscessing. As miserable as abscesses are, they are often a sign of progress. We have had faster results drawing abscesses out soaking in water and apple cider vinegar than water and epsom salts. I've used generous amounts of vinegar, though, maybe a pint in each half-full bucket.
Dr. Strasser is working on a case right now where the legs had been twisted out of alignment several years by founder and neglect--sled runner hooves. She tells us that this pony will generate sound feet faster than the joints will remodel into a correct alignment. This is what you are facing as well. Not hopeless, but it will be a long project for joints to remodel enough.
I do not think she should only be on sweet feed and a little grazing. I would feed her grass hay as well.
I do hope you go for the phone/photo consultations at the very least.
--Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Awful as it sounds, the more she keeps moving, the better.
Thank you for the suggestions. I will try the photo/phone consulation. And I'm in for the long haul. I've been trying to help her for a year and she hasn't given up and neither will I. You've given me new hope. It is really great what you do for horses and their owners who do not want to believe there is nothing else they can do. THANK YOU!!!!!!
Tracey McCostlin mj109funnyfarm@hotmail.com
Hey, Gretchen, I have been very busy with work and taking care of my mare. I can not thank enough again. I think that I'm on the road to recovery, but I'm going to say it too loud. My mare is still laying down all night, but has deceased it some. To about 6 to 8 hours. She also started to walk better. I will email you in more detail at a later time. Thank you again Paul Rossville, ga PIZZA@aol.com
I LOVED ALL THE INFORMATION I FOUND ON HOW TO TREAT FOUNDER. MY PAINT MARE, MO, HAS NOT FOUNDERED BUT I SURE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. I RIDER MO BAREFOOT ON THE BACK AND HAVE SHOES ON FRONT. I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE MY FARRIER TRIM HER WITH THE NATURAL WILD WAY SO I CAN GO BAREFOOT ALWAYS. PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW I CAN HELP PREVENT MY HORSE FROM BEING FOUNDERED. THANK YOU, SANDIE MOSANDIE@EXCITE.COM
Gretchen Fathauer's reply to the above post:
During the periods when Max was barefoot AND ridden a minimum of 5 miles a day, plus on turnout 24/7, he had no grass founder problems. This supports Dr. Strasser's contention that lots of exercise and barefootedness will go a long way towards preventing laminitis because these things enhance circulation.
Horses who are fat, under-active, and whose heels are contracted via shoeing or improper trimming, are more vulnerable. Jaime Jackson was hard pressed to find any foundered horses in the wild.
De-shoeing your horse will entail many months of adjustment, though. The hoof horn and soles of shod horses are generally softer than horses who have been barefoot for a long time. You might get Jaime Jackson's newest book, "Horse Owners Guide to Natural Hoof Care." He talks about this transitional process in this book. In the transition period, you will probably need removable boots to ride in, which you can keep off the rest of the time. If you are going to ride on rough terrain, it is very helpful that the horse be pastured on similar terrain. His feet will not adapt well to gravel roads if he is living in soft mud all the time, for instance. Hope this helps.
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
I have visited your site for the past two years. We have had 2 ponies, each of which suffered from chronic laminitis. With the first pony, we did all the "textbook" treatments. The vet did x-rays and made recommendations to the farrier. The farrier did the prescribed trim and applied reverse shoe. Each of these shoeings caused the pony extreme pain, many abscesses formed where the nails went into the hooves, and the pony was restricted to a rubber-matted stall and given bute daily. The pony was miserable in this confinement. We ultimately refused to have him shod due to the pain and infection. We kept his feet medicated with a poultice and wrapped in disposable diapers for protection. After six months of intensive care, much expense, and much pain to the pony, we lost him to colic. We would never do this again.
The pony we have currently was being treated much as you have described, with encouraging results. Unfortunately, all farriers seem to start out claiming that they are "responsible and conscientious - not "like the other farriers," but, sadly, end up just like"the other farriers." So the "good" farrier who promised to help keep her trimmed has allowed other priorities to come first. Sometimes, we think, farriers are a bit "macho" and prefer to shoe rather than just trim. Anyway, we realize it is up to us to save this pony. My husband is well-capable of trimming her with guidance. He trims our other 4 horses and 4 donkeys regularly. At this time, the pony is kept on a grass hay diet with mineral block in an area with 2 miniature donkeys. We feed her on wet, muddy ground to keep her feet cool. We are grappling with "too long" hooves because we waited for the farrier who broke his promise. Thank you for maintaining this page - we believe in this approach and appreciate any help.
Kathy & Mike Monaghan ponymona@cdepot.net
Gretchen Fathauer's reply--
I sure do know what you mean about not being able to rely on these guys to show up! If my farriers had been more reliable, I never would have been forced to learn how to do things myself--and never would have put up this web page.
Paul Olson, who has comments on this guest book, also had the shoes nailed on backwards, and the toes set up at 60 degrees. Since pulling the shoes and lopping 2 inches off the heels, his mare is doing a lot better. Sorry this shoes nailed on backwards approach was used on the pony you lost, and I am really sorry to hear of your loss.
I really do urge you to do the phone/photo consultations with either Jaime Jackson or Sabine Kells. I cannot do a very good job of advising you without actually seeing photos of your pony's feet, either.
I know it's scary doing your own orthopedic trimming, and I was leery of diving in myself, but it has definitely paid off. Sounds like your husband will do just fine.
Dr. Strasser and Sabine are tentatively planning to do a tour of several USA locations in May. I urge your husband to attend one of these clinics, as the trim is a complicated form that is difficult to describe adequately on a 2-D medium like my web page. Will email you privately with new material that will be added to the web page in 2-3 weeks.
Best of luck with your pony!
Gretchen Fathauer gretchenfathauer@ee.net
Excellent work: I have been trying to find out the dosages for the dolomite, apple pectin, UAA, etc... for horses and if they are any different - for ponies. Exactly what and how much? I have many friends that are VERY interested to hear!
Pony doses are around half a horse dose--proportionately according to weight. Dolomite in a horse is around 1 Tbsp a day. Contact Nancy Filbert about the apple pectin. A pony dose of UAA Gel is half a 150 cc. tube, followed by the other half an hour later. I have heard from one lady who had great results just buying some activated charcoal from a water filter company, and gave her horse a couple of doses, but I don't know how much she gave. That, plus better trimming, got him much better in just days....he is now having discipline problems in the round pen. :-)
Aloha from Hawaii! We are thinking of taking on a beautiful Peruvian Paso mare that has just foundered. So finding your site was extremely helpful. Of course, the risks of taking this on are daunting, but reading your site has given me more hope. She is in the prime of her life at 7 yrs old, and we were devastated to learn of her condition. Any input would be really appreciated.
dharmo@maui.net
A very excellent article! I have a mare that foundered in the hind left foot, and although I have contacted many veterinarians and farriers, all have said about the same thing...put her down. This article has shown me that there is still hope for her!!! Thank you.
Shelley Sparks RandyRouge @ aol.com
Thank you for the information. I have gotten Jaime's book and Dr. Strasser's. My 22 yr. gelding has a dropped coffin bone, as well as damage from an injury. (He sheared off the inside of his left front foot, severing nerves and arteries. He was not expected to live or every be sound again. Through nutrition, homeopathy, accupucture, magnets etc., he grew back a foot even though his coronary band was also severed. He was even sound and rideable until he foundered. Now he is ok-ish and in bar shoes.) True to predictions, he is becoming more uncomfortable (for about a year he was golden with the bar shoes). I know this barefoot thing makes complete sense, but I am TERRIFIED to pull the shoes. (He's not really sound, but he is better than he was). They live with freedom 24 hours, a large pasture (7acres), but my schedule does not allow me to walk him everyday. If he cannot get the frequent walks and trims, should I still consider this?? Strasse