Treating Founder (Chronic Laminitis) without Horseshoes
Guest book posts, 2006

Gretchen Fathauer's replies are in RED.


Date:

08 Feb 2006

Comments

I just happened on to your site. I spent so long looking at it I can't remember where I saw the link. Holy cow, there's a lot to read, I barely scratched the surface. I have a few things to say and ask.

I have 2 barefoot horses, that's how they came and I love it. I don't care for shoeing at all.

They come and go as they please, no doors.

They've always been healthy, I'm lucky.

I have a short QH with high withers. I had a hard time finding a saddle that fit well. I gave up and got an OK fitting saddle. I regret it. I'm very interested in the treeless saddles, but can't afford that right now. I was wondering about bareback riding and how comfortable that is for the horse.

We are buying a currently running boarding farm here in southeast PA. I've noticed that a lot of the horses seem to spend too much time indoors. I'd like them out more, but I'm not sure how well this will be received by the boarders. It seems that horse people stick to what they think is right and don't like to change. This barn is what I'd call a typical horse farm, horses in shoes, saddles you can find in most tack shops, blankets in what I'd consider OK temperatures, and so on. How do I find the middle ground between what I think is right and the boarders' wishes? This is, after all, a business. I can't risk loosing money over a matter of opinion.

Thanks for any advice you might have. Your site looks wonderful and I can't wait to read the rest. Tammy Bachmann teb700@aol.com

Gretchen Fathauer's reply--there IS a market for more natural boarding facilities.  You may lose some of your current boarders, but gain many others.  You could offer two kinds of board in the same barn, too.  Many farms do this successfully.  As far as your high-withered horse, I would look for a well-stuffed Australian with a narrower tree and a lot of spine and wither clearance.  Not all are expensive.  The problem with a lot of the cheaper ones is that their trees are too wide.  But an Aussie with thickly stuffed panels could work for you.  If the horse is bony and so is the rider, a saddle is more  comfortable for both, so long as the saddle actually fits the horse.


Date:
16 Feb 2006

Comments

At last a place to buy/sell/swap our horse boots. I'm one of the many who tried several types of hoof coverings before finding the one I liked best. Of course, now I have 3 different types of boots just sitting around.

Do you think you could somehow categorize the types of boots in each section? That way people could go to the type of boot they want to buy.

Thank you for putting a website in place for us barefooters.

cindy edwards wrsinosky@aol.com


Date:
25 Feb 2006

Comments

I am fascinated and appreciate this information. I am interested in trimming my own horses and love this website. My horses are healthy so far and my goal is to keep them that way using a barefoot trim done properly. They are outside all the time and I want to learn all I can about this. Thanks. Sharon Futterer tjf@ocsnet.net


Date:
16 Mar 2006

Comments

Thank you. I was about to give up hope on my quarter horse mare who just turned 11. She has foundered and doesn't seem to be getting any better, even though it has been two years since she first got sore. I've had vets and farriers tell me there is no hope left for her. I just love this horse--she is kind, sweet and very reliable like a best friend, but looking into her big brown eyes tears my heart out seeing the pain she is going through. After reading your articles I found some very useful information. I'm going to try a sling to get her trimmed because she has a hard time standing with one foot elevated. Before she foundered she was like a kitten getting trimmed, but now it's a full-fledged fight just to trim one foot. I don't want to give up on her. I know in my heart she will recover with proper trimming and care. I thank you once again for your inspiring articles and insightful suggestions. Wish Moon and me luck. marlenek@myself.com


Date:
17 Apr 2006

Comments

Great Site!

Transitioned my TB to barefoot a year or so ago now out of necessity: It was either that, or shoot her, as conventional farriery couldn't help her!

Needless to say, we're now out competing and hunting without shoes, much to the amazement of many, and are grateful to sites like this as the inspiration which kept us going through the tough times.

Fay Lacey, BHSAI & BHSISM (Reg), UK.


Date:

23 Apr 2006

Comments

Linda Roy -- Ljroy77@hotmail.com -- Thank you for such a great source of information. My 14-yr.-old mare foundered Thurs. night. At least that's when I discovered her condition. Sad to say, she may have been that way for a few days because I was busy with a family medical emergency and my help gave her too much clover hay. I'm not sure exactly when she foundered. Anyway, I was greatly distressed at her condition and had the vet out immediately, and he recommended a farrier who is doing what you have described in your article. With the vet's medical attention and the farrier's expertise, she was immediately much better. But your information has really helped me help her, so I am extremely thankful. There will be a test done on her very soon for Cushings because she has developed a cresty neck in the last 18 mo., and now the founder incident, but not the long hair. She is shedding out nicely and her coat was just a normal winter hair coat. I'm hopeful that the clover was the culprit. Any comments would be appreciated. I don't want to overlook anything that will help her. Again, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!! Sincerely, Linda Roy


Date:
24 Apr 2006

Comments

Thanks for your site! It's wonderful to see the spread of awareness to allow a horse to be a horse.


Date:
26 May 2006

Comments

Thanks for providing this boot swap service. These boots are difficult to fit, I trust. I have two pairs I got to try from people who also tried them, and they don't fit any of the three of our horses so far! I am really hoping to find some that fit!

Lorraine Stubbins logriffy@nethop.net

Gretchen Fathauer's reply--the www.HorseSneaker.com site does custom work--try them.  Also, Jaime Jackson has a book out on how to fit Swiss boots, if you're inclined to be handy.


Date:
30 June 2006

Comments

Your site is awesome. While I was studying for my farrier science class, I was looking for different ideas on how to treat founder. My final essay included several different options on treatment methods. Most of them cruel and scary. Your site changed my whole way of looking at horses with laminitis. I was lucky enough to rescue some seriously foundered equines (no sole penetration). A white donkey had worse hooves than I had ever seen. Curled like a noodle and nearly a foot long, bones slightly deformed, and the hoof wall completely enclosed the sole. Could not barely move. Almost a year of persistence and your site and Dr. Strasser's books...she was running to greet us.

Thank you,
Bianca Gaugler
venicemorning@yahoo.com


Date:
July 14, 2006

Comments

I came across your site seeking info on laminitis as the racehorse Barbaro's survival has just been announced as slim due to laminitis. I wanted to read about it. I like the photos of your pets (I am a cat owner) and the orphan animals. Very nice web site.

Kelly Yorke
uniquetextiles@sbcglobal.net

Gretchen Fathauer's reply--it is always possible that a horse will founder in his overloaded 'good' foot when he's got an injury that keeps him off the opposite foot.  I am very sad to hear this has happened.  I don't see why foundering in one foot has to be a death sentence.


Date:
16 July 2006

Comments

A lot of useful information. My horse was just diagnosed with severe laminitis in both front feet. We have already changed the shoes (he is in heartbars) and I am working on changing his feed. I don't want to lose him. When the blood tests come back from Kentucky next Friday I will know more and hope to formulate a better plan to go forward with. P. Catlett, patandkoda@msn.com


Date:
16 July 2006

Comments

I feel like an idiot, but this was the first place I saw to even contact you. My mare is vet-diagnosed with a hepatic liver and because I wouldn't take her for a biopsy they started her on meds...3 weeks ago...antibiotics and bute and metranitozal pills? She also got some bugs and some paste, as her stool started to get loose. She is looking much better. Eating, drinking, gaining weight. I didn't know it until I started checking out laminitis and founder, based on looking up unexplained liver disease...but she is ouchy on her feet, has bed sores on the front feet that won't heal...and the biggy, when I bought her two years ago she moved around her 25 x 25 space constantly. I am ashamed to say, she hasn't been moving like that for about nine months. Just standing in the corner. It wasn't until 3 weeks ago when she stopped eating and drinking that I realized I had a sick horse. No signs of swelling, no laying down, just still and ouchy when she walked around. She has been barefoot since we I got her. Because she was moving around, she kept her feet in good shape. She stopped moving; her feet got longer. Tonight I picked up her front feet. I don't know if she'll tolerate trimming. She let me rasp her. I need a farrier in Phoenix that will wild horse trim her properly. Help. Also, I am confused on feed. She was on Dyna foal pellets and timothy. Timothy went to $20 per bale. I gradually switched her to alfalfa 4 months ago. The vet said, get her to eat anything for now.1 can pellets with Source am. 1" flake alfalfa pm. All the Bermuda she can eat. But I am reading grass is the cause? My vet says we're doing ok--we're making progress. She physically looks 75% now. She looked 25% and was 102 degrees when I called the vet. The vet took one hour and 1/2 to get to us and she was 104. I want her 100%. When I mention laminitis, they say no? SHE IS STANDING IN THE CORNER all day and OUCHY ON HER FEET. The arena is Arizona silt and some sharp 1/4" rocks, which I am raking out. Her hoof shape is long in the toe and short heels. She now gets out for an hour or so. After reading, all the horses will be turned out from 6 till 6. I'll feed them in their pens when they're in. Is Bermuda the issue? Will she need boots if she's just hand walking? Will boots comfort her in her roaming and speed healing? Are the bed sores going to heal? She was bought as a brood mare...will she be able to carry a foal and deliver? The nutrients we pack into mares seem to conflict with this disease? Thank you. Please call. ASAP. collect! Thank you for this information. I feel better just reading it. Imagine how Dancer will feel getting to roam for 12 hours starting 07/16/2006! THANK YOU! Lisa


Date:
19 July 2006

Comments

I was thrilled to find your site and to read about your experiences, comments, insights and suggestions. I have two miniature horses. The mare, Lily, foundered pretty regularly -- her son, Thunder, less so. (I've had them three years and to my knowledge they have never been shod.) This year I suspected that exercise might help and even though I don't have a round pen I decided she needed to be run. I started longing her in an open field this spring, twice a day. I started by trotting her only a few minutes each time and now we do about ten minutes twice a day with a canter thrown in. It is now the middle of July and she has not shown any signs of founder. The exercise has been good for her -- and for me. The regular exercise has also reduced the need for trimming. Not only did the results support my instinct, but when I found your site a few days ago, I was so excited. From your site I also have a better idea about the blood flow in the hoof. The idea that the hoof actually flexes/expands and contracts throughout the process makes a lot of sense. And so, as a result of your site, I run water onto the ground twice a day and have the horses stand in it while I give them treats -- I guess I'll need to find two of those great water pans you use. Where can I get them? How do you train the horse to stand in it? Olga ohorak@usamontana.com



Date:
20 July 2006

Comments

Who can resist baby animals??  Especially wild ones.  I have always mixed egg yolk and milk for my little rescues, and now I know it is good for them!

Thanks for the fun shots and story--


Date:
07 Aug 2006

Comments

I enjoyed reading through your product assessment and info on saddles and collection. I have a very nice, very barrel-bodied half draft that tends also to be mutton withered and, I am investigating different saddling/girthing options. We are saddle training this summer and the girth on his draft horse western saddle creeps forward and pinches him.... Ha ha.. he very clearly told me where the pain was the other day with is head turned all the way around, nose glued to the spot where the girth slid forward and eyes saying..."Listen sweetie, do I need to get the dog to interpret this for you?"... Very nice, done with thought....I am continuing my search for solutions, and your comments have given me some ideas... Thanks! Rose


Date:
16 Aug 2006

Comments

A very, very helpful site!  I enjoyed reading the articles, and it will be a good guide for me on how to train and understand my horses.  Keep up the good work!

Mara
mara_jake@yahoo.com


Date:
03 Sep 2006

Comments

Thank you for writing down your barefoot experiences.  My 2 are barefoot already, and I am trying to encourage other horse owners to pull the shoes.  Stories of successful barefoot horses are a great help!

Doris, Scotland


Date:
08 Sep 2006

Comments

The most fascinating and compete information I have ever seen on the hoof! Your photos offer a wealth of instructional gain. Well done.


Date:
08 Sep 2006

Comments

You have no idea how helpful your website was when I got a call from my Mom saying something was wrong with Sparky! Sparky is a just under 3' horse...and a little pig, I might add. We both knew what the problem was, but what do you do about it and why did it happen? It was the fresh new grass here in desert Texas. Finally rain, and now a sick horse. As Mom was walking Sparky, I was busy looking on the internet for why and what to do. Mom did call the vet and he didn't seem to be too concerned. After a hour he stop trying to roll and he is no longer hot, sweating. I am going to get some of that paste to have on hand for the future. We have other minis and they will eat anything. The people that owned Sparky before fed him dog food and candy canes! Who knows what he got into. And then I clicked onto the Photos of your pets and the list of babies and what to do is great! I printed that out too. I have raised many birds and a cotton tail. It is tough when the day comes to let them loose.

Kathryn


Date:
20 Sep 2006

Comments

I was pleased to find your web site, as I have four ponies, three of whom seem to have chronic laminitis. They are not shod and spend 6 to 8 hours a day on 3 acres of pasture in front of my house (with a horse, two miniature donkeys and a goat). They get only half a scoop of oats split between them once a day with about a flake of grass hay each. I gather from your site that I need to have the farrier come more often. They also seem better after 2 or 3 days of dosing with bute periodically, but I don't continue it much longer than that because I'd worried about the side effects. I'm going to talk to my vet about the charcoal product you spoke of. I just wanted you to know that I certainly found your site to be very informative! Thank you!

Terryholaday@aol.com (central Indiana)


Date:
11 Oct 2006

Comments

I think this is a very good website.  It also gives encouragement to people like me who are just starting to use the natural trim for founder.  Keep up the good work and updating.  Our horses' lives depend on websites like this one.  If not for this website and others like it, more horses would be euthanized instead of treated and cured.  Thank you. 

Wilma Anderson
stardust1154@yahoo.com


Date:
16 Oct 2006

Comments

I really have more information than when I started reading!! I have a question...we have rescued a foundered horse.  The abscess came out the tip of the toe and there is MEAT protruding. What do you suggest???? We have tried everything to keep infection out.  Poultice dressing and covering with cotton balls, duct tape, and then putting a sock over her foot.  Would it be better with air?? I need some advice!  Thank you! Jodimla@aol.com

Gretchen Fathauer's reply--email me some photos so I can be sure I understand what you mean.


Date:
22 Oct 2006

Comments

Thank you for sharing your pictures and thoughts on the Balance saddle.  I, too, have a problematic horse and am looking for answers with a correct saddle fit.

Deedee Howell  windyacres@netrevolution.com

Date:
08 Sep 2006

Comments

You have no idea how helpful your website was when I got a call from my Mom saying something was wrong with Sparky! Sparky is a just under 3' horse...and a little pig, I might add. We both knew what the problem was, but what do you do about it and why did it happen? It was the fresh new grass here in desert Texas. Finally rain, and now a sick horse. As Mom was walking Sparky, I was busy looking on the internet for why and what to do. Mom did call the vet and he didn't seem to be too concerned. After a hour he stop trying to roll and he is no longer hot, sweating. I am going to get some of that paste to have on hand for the future. We have other minis and they will eat anything. The people that owned Sparky before fed him dog food and candy canes! Who knows what he got into. And then I clicked onto the Photos of your pets and the list of babies and what to do is great! I printed that out too. I have raised many birds and a cotton tail. It is tough when the day comes to let them loose.

Kathryn


Date:
20 Sep 2006

Comments

I was pleased to find your web site, as I have four ponies, three of whom seem to have chronic laminitis. They are not shod and spend 6 to 8 hours a day on 3 acres of pasture in front of my house (with a horse, two miniature donkeys and a goat). They get only half a scoop of oats split between them once a day with about a flake of grass hay each. I gather from your site that I need to have the farrier come more often. They also seem better after 2 or 3 days of dosing with bute periodically, but I don't continue it much longer than that because I'd worried about the side effects. I'm going to talk to my vet about the charcoal product you spoke of. I just wanted you to know that I certainly found your site to be very informative! Thank you!

Terryholaday@aol.com (central Indiana)


Date:
11 Oct 2006

Comments

I think this is a very good website.  It also gives encouragement to people like me who are just starting to use the natural trim for founder.  Keep up the good work and updating.  Our horses' lives depend on websites like this one.  If not for this website and others like it, more horses would be euthanized instead of treated and cured.  Thank you. 

Wilma Anderson
stardust1154@yahoo.com


Date:
16 Oct 2006

Comments

I really have more information than when I started reading!! I have a question...we have rescued a foundered horse.  The abscess came out the tip of the toe and there is MEAT protruding. What do you suggest???? We have tried everything to keep infection out.  Poultice dressing and covering with cotton balls, duct tape, and then putting a sock over her foot.  Would it be better with air?? I need some advice!  Thank you! Jodimla@aol.com

Gretchen Fathauer's reply--email me some photos so I can be sure I understand what you mean.


Date:
22 Oct 2006

Comments

Thank you for sharing your pictures and thoughts on the Balance saddle.  I, too, have a problematic horse and am looking for answers with a correct saddle fit.

Deedee Howell  windyacres@netrevolution.com


Comments

Thank you so much for making this information available on your website. I have only recently discovered the ‘barefoot’ movement, and your website is so informative to help understand the fundamentals of hoof mechanism and issues relating to founder and laminitis. I have been very interested in exploring the various links to other sites which all help to increase my understanding and knowledge of the subject. A couple of weeks ago, I agreed to take care of an aged Clydesdale draught horse (19 years) who was destined for the slaughterhouse if no one was prepared to take her. She has severe, longstanding leg problems, and is obviously in some pain, with considerable distortion to the shape of her feet. I am not in favor of continuing with toxic drug therapies that have only served to mask these symptoms, so I am hopeful of being able to improve her general condition with regular mineral and herb supplements, as well as free range grazing in open paddocks with other horses for company. Fortunately, her feet are in reasonable shape, but in desperate need of regular trimming to correct her posture and allow for recovery of very longstanding tendon issues, swollen legs and lameness. I am very encouraged to read about the successes other people have had and I suppose I am hoping for a miracle… I expect time will be the best judge and hopefully I can report good news after a few months of this new treatment.

Fiona Blachford Bruthen Victoria Australia


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